Agave obscura

[Brian Kemble]

Agave obscura.

In the mountainous western part of Veracruz, both north and south of Orizaba volcano, we saw lots of Agave obscura (note that this species is listed under Agave polyacantha in Gentry’s book). It seemed to thrive in very wet areas, but where drainage was good (cliffs, steep slopes, and on old lava flows). Plants were often quite green, but some populations had more of a bluish tinge. Of the attached photos, #001-007 are from Las Magdalenitas, volcanic peaks northwest of Xalapa, Veracruz. I liked the more glaucous plants better, so these predominate in my pictures. Photo # 008 is from Zongolica, farther south and lower in altitude, on a cliff in a rainforest environment, and here the plants were all green and had longer leaves.

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[Paul S]

It is amazing how similar this group can be, isn't it, with some forms looking almost identical! Further north you get the same scene with A. mitis. Further south the same with A. chiapensis. Without the location you could be looking at any of them.

[Zeroscraper]

Great pics! I have a couple of A. obscura, and I've found them to be one of the most moisture and cool-tolerant Agaves. However I don't think they'd make it in the ground around here, at least not through the sort of winters we've been having lately. Thanks for posting pics and the other species as well; I enjoyed them.

[GermanStar]

Will the real A. obscura please stand up? I just brought home a 5 gallon plant marked A. obscura that looks identical to the photo below (only healthier and larger), and radically different from the other pics in this thread.

Agave obscura

[GermanStar]

A. lophantha, right?

[Paul S]

I personally find it hard to tell a lot of these marginatae apart. That plant does resemble forms of Agave lophantha but similarly could easily be a form of what seems to be the extremely variable Agave horrida. I believe that Gentry's Agave obscura is now considered to be Agave horrida ssp perotensis and that what he called Agave polyacantha var xalapensis is now more correctly called Agave obscura, which is what Brian has posted those delightful pictures of. So a plant from the marginatae group looking like that could easily have a label on it saying Agave obscura, even though recent thinking has changed this name to another plant.

[GermanStar]

In my unlearned mind, I lean toward A. lophantha because of the description in the Irish book (do not have the Gentry volume), and the fact that my plant so strongly resembles each and every pic I have found. That said, Irish goes on to describe a lot of natural hybridization between A. lophantha, A. xylocantha, A. lechuguilla and others, frequently making ID an exercise in futility. In any case, I certainly see your point in regard A. horrida, and cannot discount the possibility and association with the name tag, as well as the desert-tropicals pic.

[agavemonger]

Whaaa the flock!?

No hay el libro de la ultima patron de magueys?

Que pasa, maestro?

El mongero de magueys

P.S. this plant is classic, mature-form A. lophantha.

[GermanStar]

It's on order.

[agavemonger]

Brownie points to you!

[agavegreg]

Agave obscura from Gentry (1982) has been transferred to Agave horrida ssp. perotensis because, through the work of Chazaro Basanez, it was determined that Agave obscura (Schiede) was actually what Gentry called Agave polyacantha var. xalapensis. The name Agave obscura has priority, so A. polyacanthais now known as A. obscura. Because that name could not be used for two very different plants, so in 1990 Ullrich determined that the entity Gentry called Agave obscura was in fact a subspecies of Agave horrida.

Confused yet?

Originally Posted by GermanStar

Will the real A. obscura please stand up? I just brought home a 5 gallon plant marked A. obscura that looks identical to the photo below (only healthier and larger), and radically different from the other pics in this thread.

Agave obscura

[Brian Kemble]

Looking at the photo posted by GermanStar, I would not hesitate to call this plant A. lophantha. Agave horrida & horrida perotensis might have variability, but I have never seen one that looks like this!

[GermanStar]

I recently picked up a plant tagged A. horrida, which I'm now almost certain is the real A. obscura (reference: Monocotyledons - Urs Eggli). The plant supposedly came from Rancho Soledad. I believe the tiny red marginal spines seal the deal in regard to ID.

[kambing guling]

It looks like mine is not obscura based on the above. Any idea what it might be? Not the best picture.

[GermanStar]

Most likely A. horrida ssp. perotensis.

[kaowinston]

Very interesting photos Brian. A. obscura is another agave which I come across in Europe, where the label regularly presents a different plant. Here is one of my favourite.

Winston

[GermanStar]

That looks like an A. univittata (lophantha) patch...

[kaowinston]

Thanks a lot. I had a feeling it was definitely in the lophantha/univittata group. Is A. univittata now the official name for the group?

Winston

[GermanStar]

That is my understanding, yes. I have an A. univittata exactly like your photo; compact, light green, very pretty little plant. Many/most A. univittata strains are not nearly that ornate.