Agave marmorata or gigantensis?

[Matt Maggio]

Hey All,

I've been suspecting that the plant sold as "Agave marmorata" at Rancho S. and marketed by Euro American as Agave marmorata 'Turtle teeth' (sounds corny) is really A. gigantensis from Baja Sur. Here I have photos of the plant from Rancho (large), A. marmorata from the Sierra Mixteca (medium), and a young A. giganentis.

Kelly: I'm curious as to the origin of the plant from Rancho...

The plant from Rancho doesn't fit Gentry's description of marmorata, and more closely resembles his description of gigantensis... maybe his ghost can help me out:confused For example, gigantensis has corneous leaf margins towards the leaf tip, as does the suspected plant, but marmorata does not.

Any thoughts?

Matt

[Aledlheaext]

I have a A. marmorata that I acquired 2 years ago and been neglected in my yard until now Perhaps this is the real one? See attachment. LB

[Matt Maggio]

... looks like marmorata for sure.

[Steve Steward]

Matt, you larger plants look like the gigantensis that I grow, the smaller plant doesn't to me. Even my young gigantensis are fairly glaucus and look pretty much like mature plants. I haven't dealt with too many marmorata, so I can't say much there.

Steve

[Paul S]

Agave marmorata has a skin like coarse sandpaper - really scabrous. I don't think gigantensis does?

[Matt Maggio]

With a little more sun that young plant would be more glaucous.

Yes, compared to marmorata, gigantensis is relatively glabrous. My large plant is quite smooth.

[agavegreg]

I too have long wondered about that plant from Soledad that is marketed as A. marmorata. It is very smooth, and looks nothing like either the blue, desert form found around Tehuacan or the greener form found higher up in the mountains elsewhere in Oaxaca. I don't know it's origin, and would be curious also.

Lina's plants are definitely the xeric form of A. marmorata.

Greg

[Paul S]

Obligatory habitat shots! Nice Yucca mixtecana in the background, too.

[Nick PGP]

Matt, your large R. Soledad plant very closely resembles the only plant i have of A. gigantensis, which is a similar size. In fact, if we were doing a 'blind' ID on a photo of it I would still have said A. gigantensis.

[Matt Maggio]

Another thing... I've seen one of these suspected agaves flower in a landscape, and it doesn't quite resemble the look of marmorata inflorescences I've seen photographed.

[Kelly Griffin]

On this I agree with Matt. I am not in on this or turtle teeth which I believe are the same clone.

I collected seed of two forms of gigantensis (both were sold at the Nursery) one for was looking like something between this and sobria the other more conforming.

I also collected marmorata seed in more than a few locations. Puebla, Guerrero etc. I would even put forth that Agave valenziana from Jalisco is a really big form of this species (without proof of course!) There have been some strange forms of both species that have shown up.

Anyway one was selected and cloned. I can see how this could happen. Flowers don't lie usually unless you are talking haworthias! It is an interesting form.

Kelly