Puya raimondii

[Allen Repashy]

Hey guys,

I have been looking for this species for a while. I heard a specimen flowered up in Berkeley some years ago and some seed was collected, but I have yet to find any plants or seed offered. Anybody out there seen the plant around for sale? The thought of this plant came to mind today while I was attempting my first Puya hybrid. I have a Puya mirabilis, and a Puya laxa blooming so Kelly saw them and suggested I give it a try. They are two of the more user friendly species, and a cross could be interesting.

[Craig Ruaux]

Good lord... I know raimondii is a BIG plant, but that's easily four times the size I had as a mental image.

This prompted me to go off on an internet search regarding the largest branched inflorescence, and I discovered that Puya raimondii is a real contender, but beaten out by Corypha umbraculifera, AKA the Talipot Palm.

Can't help with a source though, sorry.

[Tim Harvey]

I have some seeds somewhere if you want them. Might be a bit old.

T

[Andy]

I haven't seen any for sale. Through the stories that I've heard, a few people have them but most of the seedlings just withered and died off one by one not leaving very many. I am assuming the ones I have heard of came from that Berkeley plant.
-andy

[Brian Kemble]

For the largest branched inflorescence, I thought the record-holder was Furcraea longaeva (up to about 40 feet tall - see Illustrated Handbook of Succulent Plants, Monocotyledons, p. 82). If it is not the record-holder, it is at least quite impressive!
Brian

[Craig Ruaux]

Not wanting to derail the thread, thanks for the comment Brian. I got my info on the Talipot Palm from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corypha_umbraculifera, and we all know how reliable the source of all current human knowledge actually is...

[lorax]

To get back to Allen's original question, I can look for seed next time I'm in the paramos of the Cordillera del Condor - there are a couple of populations of P. raimondii in the Vicuña reserve. I'll just have to hope that I get there before the Vicuña do - they seem to like the seeds of most Puyas, and I've watched them band together to push over masts so they can munch out...

[Boo Hollow]

Allen - I posted this as a want on the classified ads section hoping some seed would pop up. There were 5 seeds sold last year on Ebay for an absolutely ridiculous price. With all the other Puya species available, I would hope some hit the market, then a mad dash to the finish line.

[agavegreg]

What time of year do these bloom?

Originally Posted by lorax

To get back to Allen's original question, I can look for seed next time I'm in the paramos of the Cordillera del Condor - there are a couple of populations of P. raimondii in the Vicuña reserve. I'll just have to hope that I get there before the Vicuña do - they seem to like the seeds of most Puyas, and I've watched them band together to push over masts so they can munch out...

[lorax]

Generally, they seem to bloom just at the end of the "winter" ie the wet season. Puya should be starting to bloom now in the Llanganates, which is too dangerous in this part of the season to visit; they'll be blooming in the Condor in a couple of months. Midsummer is the best time to look for seed - it will have set well, and I can also often find pups then, especially on intact masts. It's also easier to access the paramos where the P. raimondii grow in the summertime, when there is less cloud and cold wind.

I don't know about this year, though - the seasons have shifted around considerably. Here in Ambato, it's technically "spring" (the mid-wet season pause) but we're still getting full "winter" (wet season) weather. This has extended the Achupalla (P. clava-herculis) bloom season considerably in my area - the populations on Chimborazo are still going, where they should have stopped with the end of the snow.

[carl carter]

The Berkeley Botanic garden had Puya raimondii for sale in 1 gal. pots at the 2010 spring sale. I assume they have more.

They have bloomed, after about 25 to 30 years, at both Berkeley and San Francisco Strybing gardens. They survive 30” of rain in our winters (December to April) and get regular/supplemental watering year round. Both locations are under heavy marine influence, think foggy San Francisco. 80F would be unusual for a summer day, and 35F would be an uncommon winter minimum.

Berkeley has two 7’ plants near their rose garden, north of their other Puya beds. The last plant to bloom in Strybing, 2008, was so massive it fell over during the wet winter.

Puyas: bromeliad beauty queens - SFGate

[Coyotee]

Someone alerted me to seed of this species on eBay. Here is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Worlds-largest-B...item19bf764444

Have fun!

Cody Coyotee

[Boo Hollow]

Coyotee - Thanks for the Ebay update. Unfortunately, the last time these guys sold the seed, it went for $300+ for 6 seeds. Nuts. The plants that were being sold in 1 gallon at UC Berkeley were only $12.00. Since the seed germination rate is fairly low, 50-60%, that would mean paying some $100.00 per plant and never seeing it bloom in one's lifetime. This is where emotions get the best of the collector and they drive the prices up to utterly ridiculous prices. What would be better is if a group agreed to purchase the seeds and divide them up. Let's say we have 3 people and we only put in a bid of $60.00 may. Then we can get the seed for 10.00 each and three people would be happy. No Robinson Parkham price fixing act violation here, just some common sense. Bryan Gim told me yesterday that they do not have any more plants for sale. So it is going to be a mad dash for a few seeds.... this is where my common sense steps up and says, wow, nice plant, but WTF on the pricing and where in the hell would I plant the thing and guarantee that my survivors could appreciate the flowers and seeds some 30 years down the road. I say preposterous my friend, simply preposterous.

[Tim Harvey]

If you have a little patience, the vendor will usually offer a second or more batches at a later date. I got my seeds for less than $20 last time.

Of course I didn't get round to sowing them and now can not find them ...

T

[Boo Hollow]

Tim - It would be nice to see the seed prices come down to earth. I watched after that last high priced auction and just abandoned hope in that the seeds did not show up again for a long time. The current seller is the same seller that managed to get the $300+ for the seeds last time. From what I have been told regarding this species of Puya, one large plant can spit out close to a million seeds, so if one has access to a mature plant, it would not take much space/effort to obtain a #@$%^ load of seed.

You still have to find those old seed and get them sown. That is another year down the road til flowering you won't get to see.

BTW. Did you used to work at Bldg 30? I designed the solvent dispense and recovery system for all the HPLC's.

[Tim Harvey]

I was B14 only during my stay there.

T

[Coyotee]

The seed on eBay is only up to $30. Just an update.

[Allen Repashy]

That's ridiculous!.... I recently found someone with seed and thought $.50 a seed was almost too much LOL. I have sowed a bunch of seed, so hopefully will have some to share one of these days.

[Boo Hollow]

So the Ebay auction ended for $44.00+ shipping. Whom among us was the foolish one after Allen's post of .50 a seed??? Fessss up now!

[carl carter]

I'll quote what Matt wrote in Cactus ID. "I used the square-foot-week concept in nursery cost accounting to help calculate how much I would have to charge for each one to make a decent profit. I assumed 10 cents per square-foot per week..."

25 to 30 years to adulthood, resulting in a ten-foot-plus diameter plant.

I guess growing one from seed MIGHT be cheaper than flying all the way to Peru, or Bolivia to see one bloom. Even if you include the highest seed price.

[Boo Hollow]

Originally Posted by Allen Repashy

That's ridiculous!.... I recently found someone with seed and thought $.50 a seed was almost too much LOL. I have sowed a bunch of seed, so hopefully will have some to share one of these days.

Carl - I prefer Allen's quote to state a point. In the cut flower business or perennial/annual business, .10 sqft/wk works well when you can turn a plant in 8-16 weeks. It fails, however, when applied to a plant that can take even as little as 1 year to get to size. Case in point, most of your larger Echeveria agavoides that are in holding for 2-2.5 years and take up 1 sqft in a quart size to prevent damage, which would equate to 10.4 - 13.00 per quart plant... the same ones currently being sold at HD for $4.97. So if you back engineer the cost basis on that, it would be more like 0.019 sqft/wk since Altman's is only getting 1/2 the retail sale cost.

The formula also does not relate to seeds stock inventories. The point is that a plant that produces 1 million seed and has say a 50% germination rate, in order for the plants to be realistically priced, say like the $14.00 per gallon plants from the botanical garden, then the seed cost can't be $8.33 each.

[carl carter]

It IS definitely cheaper to grow a ten foot diameter plant, for three decades, than to fly to Bolivia, or Peru to see one flower!

[Boo Hollow]

Originally Posted by carl carter

It IS definitely cheaper to grow a ten foot diameter plant, for three decades, than to fly to Bolivia, or Peru to see one flower!

Carl - Since an airline ticket roundtrip to Lima can be had for $311.00 USD and figure another $200.00 for lodging and travel (exclude food since you would have been eating already) you really have to evaluate whether or not it truly is cheaper to wait 30 years to see one bloom rather than pay to travel to see one. If you figure the investment over time in watering, weeding, fertilizing and general care, look at the manhours invested (let's assume minimum wage as a basis) and you only spend 3 hours a year x 30 years = 90 manhours = 90 x 8.50 = $765.00, figure using 100 gallons of water over that 30 year period at a rate of .30 gal = $30.00, and then figure how many calories you burn in that 90 hours - say 200 per hour, so that would be 18,000 calories. If you eat a whopper with cheese at 630 calories = 18,000/630 = 28.57 whoppers at 3.49 each = 99.71, and figure in the gas to get to the food and supplies to tend to the plant - we will just say trip-linking to save a few bucks - say 15.00 to be ultra conservative, and then the value of the land you are planting the Puya on, average price per square foot in California = 1.50 square foot (that's cheap) x 30 years = 45.00 x tax rate of .0125 = 0.56 tax liability - figure the 12.00 per seed and that you would need at least 2 - = 24.00, add them all up - it might cost you $934.27 to grow one from seed to flowering vs. $511.00 to go see one in bloom in the wild. Not to mention you might not live for another 30 years.

The above was an extremism view of actual costs versus perceived costs. It is intended to be in good fun.

[lorax]

OK, Boo, but what you're not factoring in for Peru is the cost of flying from Lima to one of the paramo access points, say Cuzco, and the cost of hiring a guide to take you upwards (required in most of Peru's national parks). Lima is at 10 meters above sea level on the coast of Peru.....

[Boo Hollow]

Originally Posted by lorax

OK, Boo, but what you're not factoring in for Peru is the cost of flying from Lima to one of the paramo access points, say Cuzco, and the cost of hiring a guide to take you upwards (required in most of Peru's national parks). Lima is at 10 meters above sea level on the coast of Peru.....

Lorax - Does the expression Tongue in Cheek or Facetious ring a bell???