Dracaena cinnabari-anybody growing one?

[Stan]

Just out of curiosity if anybody has seen any of size in a garden? I would be happy with D.drago in my climate but the extra exoticness of D.cinnabari is enticing.
btw,Did the one at the L.A. arboretum survive 2007?

[Allen Repashy]

I was lucky enough to get about 40 seedlings them From Guy Wrinkle a few years ago, who set some seed about six or eight years ago. They are very slow compared to draco, but worth the wait. They just went into a five gallon size pot so are going to be a while to become specimen size. (they are not for sale)

[Rob]

Hi Stan,
I do not know D. cinnabari, but if it is similar to draco, is it similar to serrulata which I am currently looking for?
Thanks,
Rob

[Tim Harvey]

I think serrulata has been merged with ombet. I'm not one for altering labels. The Huntington should have some soon, possibly ISI 2011.

T

[thistlesifter]

Hi,

Grigsby's Cactus and succulent nursery has a flowering example. The tree is over 12 feet tall and it made seed in the mid-to late-1980's and though it does flower I don't know if it has made fruit since. I think it might have been weakened in a fall..maybe knocked over.. There are at least two seedlings from that crop on the premises.

I had seen the tree for years and as far as I can remember it has always been so non-descript that I never ask about or paid much attention to it till about 3 months ago.

I have a cinnabari from the Grigsby's seed crop in the mid-to-late 1980's. There is an ever so slight difference in the juvenile draco and juvenile cinnabari. The difference at maturity is evident, but there is nothing too dramatic about the differences.

Allen IMHO, the 'Worth the Wait' is a bit over-the-top. Maybe you are going to be around waiting for several hundred years to see almost the same drama you can get from a draco in 50 years... I've no idea how old the Grigsby cinnabari tree is, there is certainly no drama in that tree. A draco grows near the cinnabari in our lower garden on the hillside and the draco is easily 3 times the height and many many times the mass.

Cinnabari was put out there at about the same time the draco was and they were the same size. They have always had about the same water, fertilizer, light and surrounding growth.

I don't discount the idea that cinnabari in our gardens could be a hybrid. Though it does seem to possess the one characteristic difference that the juvenile manifests, besides slow growth. The difference seems to become more apparent with age.

Do you note any differences besides growth rate? This is a test. he he he. moving to 5 gallons after a few years. I think you will be lucky to need a boxes in 30 years.

I know I wouldn't buy a 30 year box plant said to be cinnabari unless I could get it for about the half what nurseries try to sell dracos. Dracos are weeds here. I have to weed them constantly as the birds and mice carry the seeds everywhere. I bought my draco trees 2 feet tall for 50 Cents from Mr Ganther the original owner of Ganther's nursery. He had sown them himself and wasn't able to get anything for them so he ask me what I would pay...HE HE HE.

In my lifetime..cinnabari in our gardens will be a 'Snob appeal' plant. There is certainly nothing to distinguish it much from the beauty of the Draco..Except that I can say..that is cinnabari!

Respectfully and
with Cheers!
bob
Weeks

[Allen Repashy]

Hi,

I will have to take a picture of one of my plants for you because it loooks totally different than D. draco. There is absolutely no way you could confuse the two. The leaf's are much shorter, greener, and quite stiff. they do not droop at all.... If yours aren't that different, then maybe they are hybrids... Share a photo if you can and I will snap a pic in the next few days.

Cheers, Allen

[thistlesifter]

Allen,
Thank you for the reply.

When I acquired this plant, I did so strictly on the reputation of the Nursery as to authenticity. Since then I have had doubts that have been re-in-forced somewhat by seeing 20 year old seedlings at Grigsby's a few weeks ago and now, again by your comments in this forum. We don't know what effect your growing technique has on the natural appearance. Dave Grigsby may have had similar doubts when he sold them but probably not. He was a man of honor and integrety. We don't know the whole story. I didn't ask the question.

After all there were likely no other cinibarris around as pollinators that I know of and I'm still not sure there needs to be. But certainly the opportunity for a hybrid moment occurred with the omnipresent draco around that hill that holds Grigsby's Gardens.

I will try to capture a picture of Grigsby's adult and seedlings so you can judge for yourself if you think its worth anything! I note that you don't deny the plant is non-descript. So like many other ho hum specimens it will be an interesting subject that takes up garden space (a lot of it) and will offer nothing much more than snob appeal!! that could be had by saying that your Draco is cinibarri. Am I wrong??

After 40 years of watching people as well as myself falling victim to such folly, I've settled now, at near the age of 70, on beautiful peaceful practical things. Some beautiful things are such high maintenance they are not worth the effort. Other things are too easy and are cheap.

The small Aloes and Echeverias and other things just beginning to show lots of promise in the world are the wave of the future. We have hundreds of new things. These brighten our day! And they are great items that create money-flow for the world economy. Everybody is happy! It is growing and I'm growing with it!

I have an image of the cinibarri in our gardens posted on DG that I took a couple of years ago. There is also one there from LA Arboretum. As well as from Kew Gardens London. Take a look if you are interested. I've had requests for the plant or seeds from all over the world since I posted the image there 3 years ago.

One growing in our gardens,
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/200489/
growing in UCLA Botanical gardens
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/57950/
Growing in Kew Gardens London
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/266945/

These do have the distinction of the leaves and slow growth. You can see that fertilizer changes the looks quite a bit. But in the overall scheme of things to the average observer looking at the plant there is not a nickel difference between the general appearance of these and draco.. anything else is wishful thinking.. maybe there will be dramatic difference in 400 years..but so what.

Taxonomic science aside that, makes the main values "Saving the Near Extinct"(PC) and "Snob appeal" $$ (we think) the great differences. And those two worthy agendas are the driving force for this plants appeal over draco.!!

Cheers and Grow ON.!

Bob Weeks
Bonsall, CA.

[Allen Repashy]

Hey Bob,

Here is a pic of one of my D. cinnabari.



I can only compare them to similar sized draco that I have in the garden and they are very different. The leaf's are thick and rigid, and about half the length of the draco grown only feet away. The draco leaf's are already drooping and still have a thin red margin on the leaf edge, which cinabarri doesn't have, nor did they since I got them.

The plant in your photo looks like it has cinnabari in it, but it is quite possible that also has draco. Like you say, different conditions can create different growth, but the spread of those leaf's seem's a bit off. Your plant and the UCLA plant look nothing to me like a draco. The third photo to me looks absolutely like a normal draco

Looking at a mature plant, there is no question how different they are.


What is ho-hum to one is a jewel to another. Just because you don't see enough difference to grow it doesn't mean that others do not. I am sure you have many prized Aloe's and Echeverias that most people would look at and say they can't tell the difference between them..... That doesn't mean you don't hold them dear to you. Your comment on snob appeal just doesn't make sense..... If someone enjoys having a plant for no other reason than it is rare, how does that make them a victim? A victim is someone who has to feel cheated.... you may think they were, but that isn't there problem LOL.... Just because you consider that you fell victim to buying a plant, doesn't mean that someone else who bought the same exact plant feels like a victim... It might be their pride and joy!

What is worth the effort to one is relative and you can't say something isn't worth the effort if there is a passion driving the person. Many people work hard to keep tropical species in climates they have to really work hard at it... others keep desert species in Northern Europe... and they all work really hard at it... but if they enjoy it, it is wort the effort isn't it?

Just because something is "easy and cheap" doesn't mean it isn't worthy of a place in my garden. I have plenty of plants that came from Home Depot that I think look great in my garden. I don't care if they cost me only a buck!

Your right, it will take years for them to really look like something, but I have patients, and am 30 years from retirement age, so by then they should look pretty cool...... and when I am gone.... maybe another hundred or two hundred years from now.... they will be in all their glory and someone might remember that the go back to me.... Rewards can come in more than monetary forms. I would love nothing more than to have one of my specimens end up in a botanical garden somewhere for the next millennium.

Great debate.... just pointing out that people look through different eyes at the same things....

Cheers, Allen

[Kelly Griffin]

One of my favorite species. D. draco doesn't even compare!

[Stan]

Its a more refined Dragon tree no doubt.
Its reminds me of great old Japanese white pines done Bonsai by thinning of the candles. D.cinnabari with perfect form-naturally.

[Gabbz737]

Where does one buy a draceana Cinnibari plant?

I want one so much ever since i ran across it looking up random things during my horticulture class. I studied it more at home and have been trying to find a way to get one ever since.

So where could i buy either a plant or seed?
I look all over the internet and can't find one.

[Allen Repashy]

Originally Posted by Gabbz737

Where does one buy a draceana Cinnibari plant?

I want one so much ever since i ran across it looking up random things during my horticulture class. I studied it more at home and have been trying to find a way to get one ever since.

So where could i buy either a plant or seed?
I look all over the internet and can't find one.

I haven't seen any for sale in the USA for quite a few years. It is very rare, and very slow.... Allen

[amanzed]

I did see D cinnabari at Kew Gardens in the Princess of Wales house (their main succulent planting) in July, 2010.

It was a lovely thing but at... (memory balks...) 6 ft tall, it only hinted at its potential grandeur... and its heritage.

Still... it was fun to behold, and to know what I was seeing. I think I bubbled excitedly about it to my spouse, who otherwise would have mistaken it for an unusually fat yucca.

I came away thinking that a big part of this pursuit is pure imagination... and the stories behind our plants.
--
d.c. el Zed